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[Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby critor » 28 Feb 2018, 12:52

Lionel Debroux wrote:
Totally wrong.

Well, the "CAS" string is precisely one of the pieces of code to help prevent running the CAS OS on the models sold as non-CAS

And ?... No existing public or private tool does patch it as far as I know at the time of this post.

Lionel Debroux wrote:you're right as always, and I'm wrong for stating facts :)

Look who's talking...

I think I know much better than you how those things work.
Your sentence is totally wrong (or was it on purpose to misinform ?...)
You're mixing different things with the wrong version number.

Before stating what you want, it would be better to have the respect to know what you're talking about.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby Lionel Debroux » 28 Feb 2018, 13:04

Likewise, you know you're ill-placed to talk about respect ;)
But yes, if that's what you wanted me to write, you probably know better than me how the OS 3.6+ CAS vs. non-CAS changes we're currently talking about work.

See my edit to one of my previous posts: what I'm referring to is what TI did to make OS 3.6+ CAS no longer directly run on calculators sold as non-CAS.

Anyhow, this is going nowhere. The rules (stemming from a will to try and protect TI-Planet) are clear, I wrote about them yesterday and today... and either I shall take up some of my time to enforce them if needed, or give up and let you deal with the predictable consequences of attacks against TI's business model (should they exist, again).

Maybe I'm not doing a good job at communicating, but parrotgeek1 isn't, either.

En français, ça passera peut-être mieux: on risque d'être dans le contournement de mesures techniques de protection, et là, on ne peut pas se prévaloir d'interopérabilité. Tu connais mieux que moi les pénalités pour les tricheurs aux examens, et même si ce sont eux qui prennent le risque, ce n'est pas pour ça que ceux qui font des outils pouvant être utilisés pour tricher, et dans une moindre mesure ceux qui les hébergent (ça, c'est nous) ne peuvent pas être inquiétés.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby critor » 28 Feb 2018, 13:24

Lionel Debroux wrote:Likewise, you know you're ill-placed to talk about respect ;)

As a moderator, you should calm down. Immediately.

I'm respecting everyone, including you. Not my fault if I had to react about your misinformation. And it's nothing against you. I also react to fake informations in our news threads.
You don't respect me, that's a fact, but anyway since you never took the time to speak with me about this in months although I made me available, then it's your problem, not mine.

By unfairly attacking me on off-topic things, are you trying to make readers forget your very inaccurate post ?
It is in no way going to change the truth.

Be more mature.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby critor » 28 Feb 2018, 13:28

Lionel Debroux wrote:what I'm referring to is what TI did to make OS 3.6+ CAS no longer directly run on calculators sold as non-CAS.

Ok, but with your description (incomplete quote) you were still mixing at least 2 different behaviours introduced in different versions.

TI's changes in 3.6 (and not 3.9) are abusive. Not because of the 'CAS' flag, but because they don't only prevent CAS on non-CAS, they prevent many legitimate things :
  • updates to OS 3.6+ on TI-Nspire ClickPad DVT1/DVT1.2/DVT2 prototypes, whether they are CAS or non-CAS (semi-bricking them in all cases - USB/TTL needed to recover...) :mj:
  • updates to CX 3.2+ OS on discontinued TI-Nspire CM calculators :mj:
  • 84+ emulator on CAS TouchPad calculators if you own a 84+ keypad
This is only a unique check.
It is not spread throughout the OS.

What was included in nLoader last week-end is something which has strictly nothing to do with this, and which isn't even boot related.
And I don't agree with this. So I could agree with you, but apparently we first have to agree on what we're talking about.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby Adriweb » 28 Feb 2018, 16:17

I'm not sure why you bring up other consequences of the (overall/general) changes they made, since, as you explain, they have nothing to do with CAS specifically, which is the topic of the recent posts here ("checks to help prevent running the CAS OS on the models sold as non-CAS, spread throughout the OS."). Nobody said there were no other consequences (nor talking about 3.6 only) ?

Yes, the changes did a lot of things, and among those, they do indeed prevent a direct run of CAS-on-nonCAS to work correctly (to quote you: "don't only prevent CAS on non-CAS"). That's what Lionel meant and said (he just did not talk about the other consequences since that's not the topic), so I really don't see the issue... ?

The other consequences you mention can very well be only done by one check, indeed you're probably way more informed than most/all of us here.
In "3.6+", the + really means any other versions after that, and we know clearly that TI added lots of CAS-related checks in recent OS version(s) (I don't know which one(s) precisely), spread around the OS, since that is precisely what parrotgeek fought against and patched in his code.
This is nothing new, and in general you have even mentioned "hundreds of protections to patch" yourself, and parrotgeek+someone else needed and made a "patchfinder" tool to generate automatically all the patches, since there are too many to do manually (screenshot for all that sentence, here)
That's also what Lionel meant, said, and clarified as well later on. I'm pretty sure everyone reading these posts (especially when knowing the context) will have understood that.


Really, I don't see why there's even an issue here about all that. And it doesn't even matter at all. So instead of us wasting time over a specific wording in a post that did not discern version-specific particularities (it wasn't the point), it's more important to focus on the issue at hand already mentioned several times:
the fact that parrotgeek published a launcher that has CAS-enabling patches built-in (something he said twice he would not do (see here and here), so that's just plain lying now, regardless of the excuses he wants to try to hide behind), and even more importantly, having it in the archive on TI-Planet. Actions against this needs to be taken ASAP according to rules that were already established.

Apparently, from what was discussed, a potential longer-term solution would be to only have the patch(es) that allow to get past the grey screen, and not any of the ones enabling the CAS engine to work. Those can be elsewhere, for all I care, and parrotgeek can have all the fun in the world fighting those who could come at him to C&D/remove that. Not on TI-Planet == OK for the staff.

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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby parrotgeek1 » 28 Feb 2018, 16:54

[deleted banter]
Last edited by parrotgeek1 on 07 Dec 2020, 21:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby parrotgeek1 » 28 Feb 2018, 17:02

Adriweb wrote:the fact that parrotgeek published a launcher that has CAS-enabling patches built-in (something he said twice he would not do.


I apologize. I did say that I would make them separate. I was going to do that, but I forgot until very recently that I had said that.

It turns out that there are some issues with that, especially regarding exam mode (the patches don't run in exam mode so you can't calculate anything, it just restarts). I should have either just warned about this issue, or explained why I changed my mind.
Last edited by parrotgeek1 on 28 Feb 2018, 17:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby parrotgeek1 » 28 Feb 2018, 17:05

critor wrote:Why didn't you say anything about this when several of us were sad/mad to discover the integration of the CAS calculation patch ? ;)


I don't know. I mentioned it in the Reddit post but forgot to say it here.
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby parrotgeek1 » 28 Feb 2018, 17:12

Adriweb wrote: parrotgeek+someone else needed and made a "patchfinder" tool

The other person actually never ended up helping me, but that's irrelevant at this point. He wasn't associated with the Nspire community anyway.


Adriweb wrote:parrotgeek can have all the fun in the world fighting those who could come at him to C&D/remove that. Not on TI-Planet == OK for the staff.


Even though they have never tried to get anything like OSLauncher removed, I am going to change the archives link to a redirect so that the file is actually hosted on my GitHub instead of your server. EDIT: I can't do that. It seems like only admins can add external links. I'll just make 2 versions and put the CAS link in the description
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Re: [Tuto] [EN/FR] Install nLoader / TI-Nspire CX

Unread postby critor » 28 Feb 2018, 17:48

I can change this, if you prefer it so, yes.
And/or directly link github in the tutorial.
Or make two archives, one directly linking the raw CAS file and another directly linking the raw non-CAS file.

In my opinion, the file location doesn't matter and doesn't change anything.
But if people just need this to stop fighting, then perfect. :)

nLoader is still very useful and legitimate for owners of TI-Nspire CX HW-W+, since the Ndless 4.5 installer is not the best one :
viewtopic.php?t=21103&p=227559#p227559
https://github.com/ndless-nspire/Ndless ... -365725825
Although, some tools like Nover work better with a reboot-proof Ndless environment. :)
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